Unofficial Tex Murphy

I was thinking about what it'll be like to play a new Tex game in 2013. Obviously they want to keep things pretty close to the traditional formula, but some of the baggage of limited tech will be tossed off.

Imagine...

Opening the door to Tex's office, looking outside, and then stepping through seamlessly outside and onto Chandler ave with no loading! Take that, Skyrim!

Cut scenes where the camera actually moves!

Being able to look around with the mouse!

What are you looking forward to?

looking forward to some more places to visit in chandler avenue & as mentioned chandler avenue will be brighter I assume it will look like chandler avenue in the kick starter video

Frogacuda wrote:Opening the door to Tex's office, looking outside, and then stepping through seamlessly outside and onto Chandler ave with no loading! Take that, Skyrim!

And then when you turn around and look into the distance from the fire escape there is an actual landscape rolling off into the horizon! And the trash is actual trash rather than jagged mush, that $611k+ was worth getting actual rendered trash!! OK I exaggerate but yeah walking to the end of Chandler (the other end from Golden gate that is open) will be interesting to see how it looks other than a wall of jaggedness. Maybe some trash will move in the wind or the clouds in the sky will move and so on. If there are any leaves on something maybe they will rustle in the wind!

• I am also interested how actors in the 3D world will look compared to the cardboard cutouts previous. Such as when you're in the Electronics Shop browsing and a paper thin and frozen Underwood is staring like one of those creepy paintings that follow you around a room It'll be cool to see them doing their own thing with some small movement. When the programmer said they wanted to make it seamless between switching between the movies and the gameplay that sounded very cool, though I imagine there will still be some switch due to the 1st person to 3rd person thing, but making things in the 3D world more alive will be a step up in making the transition to live film sequences.
  
  Adrian said in an interview they have some "proprietary software that will revolutionize FMV in Tex Murphy. Once the game is complete we can talk about how we did it." which sounds really intriguing.
• I wonder if we will be able to move around other places in Chandler that were only shown with cutscenes if I remember right. For example wandering around Louie's, Rook's, the Fuschia Flamingo, or other locations. I guess if it isn't necessary for any gameplay though it might eat into the budget. As well as Chandler Avenue, it will be cool to see how other areas will be rendered outside of Chandler. With the way new engines can handle texture/flora/fauna and everything else compared to the 90s. I like those parts of previous games where you got to explore some atmospheric place (e.g. the isolated cabins etc.), the extra detail should really add a lot to the atmosphere.
  
  And when you get Tex to look close at something in those environments for a funny comment, it'll actually look great up close!

Hmm all I can think of right now but sure there is more mulling in the back of my mind.

Sai wrote:[*] I am also interested how actors in the 3D world will look compared to the cardboard cutouts previous. Such as when you're in the Electronics Shop browsing and a paper thin and frozen Underwood is staring like one of those creepy paintings that follow you around a room It'll be cool to see them doing their own thing with some small movement.

This is one of the big questions for me, as well. In Overseer they just dodged the issue entirely by never having (conscious) people in the 3D parts, but that always felt lonely to me.

I actually submitted a question for the chat asking about this but they didn't answer it

Frogacuda wrote:I actually submitted a question for the chat asking about this but they didn't answer it

Would of been a good question for the countdown stream with the programmer included. Since when I asked Adrian about it he said it would depend on the programmer and engine etc.

http://www.unofficialtexmurphy.com/mess ... 999#p52999

Yeah Overseer definitely tip-toed around the issue, probably also due to the limited time in production as well. But it'd be nice to see it come back. Like if you went to some location with a lobby and there was a security guard hanging about you have to get rid of, it'd be cool if they were an actual person in the environment doing stuff like reading a magazine or something.

Great thread! I am really enjoying all the ideas. Not much to add right now, but imagining the new experience, I did just realize something that was missing before: footsteps. Of course, a gumshoe wears sneakers in order to tread quietly, so it would need to be subtle.

I'm also counting on pedestrians walking in and out of businesses on Chandler Ave (and elsewhere) as shown in the KS video. That was always a glaring absence to me, especially since the cut scene that opens Pandora shows Fitz on the street corner and watching people walk out of the Brew and Stew in the rain. That will make this world seem truly lived in.

Sai wrote:

Frogacuda wrote:I actually submitted a question for the chat asking about this but they didn't answer it

Would of been a good question for the countdown stream with the programmer included. Since when I asked Adrian about it he said it would depend on the programmer and engine etc.

http://www.unofficialtexmurphy.com/mess ... 999#p52999

Yeah Overseer definitely tip-toed around the issue, probably also due to the limited time in production as well. But it'd be nice to see it come back. Like if you went to some location with a lobby and there was a security guard hanging about you have to get rid of, it'd be cool if they were an actual person in the environment doing stuff like reading a magazine or something.

The problem with this, is that if you use a video loop, it's essentially a sprite, and when you look up or down, especially near that character, they will appear flat, like a cardboard cut out. In order to make these characters integrate, you'd essentially have to keep them 10 feet away from Tex and limit the angles they can be viewed at.

The best solution I can think of is to use photo extraction to create 3D models based on the live actors. Similar to this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nice6NYb_WA
or this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLiX5d3rC6o

That way you'd still have 3D models in the game, but the transition to FMV wouldn't be as jarring. It seems like that would work well, but it's also not the easiest thing in the world to do and might be costly. I'd love to pick their brains about this.

@Jerry Dan:
I won't mind footsteps so long as it'll come with the option "disable footsteps sound" For me it could be atmospheric at first but the kind of annoying after the first few hours. But if it can be toggled then everyone can get the experience they want.

People milling about on certain locations could be cool. Though from what Adrian told me (when I was asked about something else and it came up as a tangent) they may not go too much in that direction.

The one and only Dalton wrote:Populating streets in 3D environments is tricky because what is to stop you from deciding to follow a random person who is not involved in the story? Doing this would dilute the drive of the narrative and would be unsatisfactory to the player. The subject is something Chris and I have discussed and will continue to as we get closer to production. At this point a lot depends on which engine he wants to go with and what the final budget is.

Wish I could be more definitive but Chris is pioneering new territory for using FMV in a game.

Being an RPG fan I quite like wandering around a town/location and chatting to all the residents even if not important to the main story, adds flavour to a place I think. But I understand how not everyone likes to do that.

I like how barren Chandler is, since its meant to be the downtrodden area where not many people probably like to hang out, so I don't think there should be too many people, but a few could work. If there was though for example a Chinatown area where you are asking if anyone witnessed your speeder getting stolen outside the Chinese restaurant, I think it'd add atmosphere to the area to have some people just spending time at some kiosks etc. even if all they say is "I didn't see anything, now quit bothering me I'm trying to eat here!" or "Word of advice: You shouldn't go poking your nose around here, now scram". Just to add to the atmosphere that the locals aren't too friendly and its going to be tough to get info, that kind of thing. The Blade Runner adventure game had a part where you went around a dystopian future Chinatown asking the people hanging about eating Chinese food if they knew anything.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... FAkk#t=12s

@Frogacuda:
Yeah it very much depends on the software they have and what capabilities the programmers and engines have I guess. Maybe under legal right of the propeirtary FMV software they can't talk too much about it? Though if they're allowed and can state it as a possibility that'd be cool.

Most the time someone was behind or near a counter in the games in an environment or against a wall, sitting at a desk etc. Which you can't walk around. When I was thinking of a security guard I was thinking of one behind a counter with a glass window.

Kind of like this (though obviously Myst is clicking/rotating through fixed screens but I mean is if you were to approach them they could be obscured by their surroundings such as the plants).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfCPGqe_ ... age#t=258s

For the 3D wrap around, depending on how creative they can be with the placement of people in a way you can't walk 360 degrees around them maybe they could get away without it if they don't have that kind of tech.

Might be dumb to ask since I don't know much about it but what about filming the actor loop at different angles simultaneously and switch / blend them as you rotate around (making a note in the programming at what time in the characters loop you were when you decided to walk to the right of them, and switching to that precise point in time in the character_right.video loop). Again how much you can rotate around them might have to be restricted though by something in the environment (wall etc.) unless there is a way with 360 degrees video camera tech.

I'd like to see the guys embrace a more fluid engine rather than the stop and start feel of walking and investigating in UKAM and Pandora. Games like Deus Ex have testified the potential of an FPS engine in its ability to innovate beyond the run and gun monotony that plagues a lot of games in that particular genre. Tex will of course at no point wield a weapon, but, an FPS engine will allow us to walk, point and click during the investigation while also having some NPCs to interact with along the way. So we establish the feel of an FPS but without crossing the line. You could then easily have the inventory on a pop up menu which can be raised with one key stroke. From there you can examine, combine or equip items. But, you might also have an inventory bar down the bottom of the screen so you can scroll through them, kind of like how you would for weapons in an FPS.

It would also make for some interesting scenarios such as a Black Arrow Killer or Big Jim Slade type fight scene where maybe we need to outrun someone that's shooting at us. Overall, i'd love to see a modern first person engine that runs with fluidity between all the FMV stuff.

Opening the door to Tex's office, looking outside, and then stepping through seamlessly outside and onto Chandler ave with no loading! Take that, Skyrim!

you see that trash pile over there... you can climb it..

I think you're kinda missing the point that the programmer made. Its being able to tie the FMV into the Gameplay without having to change states. But I think he's making it seem harder than it actually is, technically it should be possible to just use a render texture or GUI element for the FMV as an overlay over the top of the gameplay- I mean that's how I'd do it.

As to the loading of scenes, they'll be instant no doubt. If they're using Unity then they could actually quite easily implement streaming. It sounded like they're not using the TruGolf engine.

mr_cyberpunk wrote:As to the loading of scenes, they'll be instant no doubt. If they're using Unity then they could actually quite easily implement streaming. It sounded like they're not using the TruGolf engine.

I think Unity is a safe bet. They seem to feel like TruGolf would take a lot of work to adapt to their needs, and Unreal is just ridiculously expensive (either a huge upfront fee or like 50% of your sales profits) so Unity seems like the reasonable choice for an independent developer.

That said, I don't think doing Tex's office and all of Chandler Ave would even require streaming. Even the biggest continuous areas in the old games are small levels by modern standards.

Sai wrote:@Jerry Dan:
I won't mind footsteps so long as it'll come with the option "disable footsteps sound" For me it could be atmospheric at first but the kind of annoying after the first few hours. But if it can be toggled then everyone can get the experience they want.

I think they should bring back the footsteps (clogs) sound from Martian Memorandum.

(either a huge upfront fee or like 50% of your sales profits)

its actually only 25%, and from what I've heard from most startup indies is pretty damn good. Either way its likely to be my engine of choice for my games.

I'll be surprised if its not Unity though.

Frogacuda wrote:I think they should bring back the footsteps (clogs) sound from Martian Memorandum.

Haha, no...just a subtle shuffle noise. If they choose the right sound, it could enhance the realism of the VR stuff.

Strangely enough, I've gotten my fair bit of experience working with Unity lately.

-Fred

sam10100 wrote:I agree. I'd probably by an additional copy for a friend.

you missed, sam