Tim Schafer seems to really get the concerns, from what I've read on his comments its very much inline with "this isn't a charity, its a business", the thing I'm really hoping is that its a once off thing, once he gets the success, he'll have the capital and fund another great game this time without having to ask the community, instead now able to rely solely on profits. If he does this and its successful, then the system still works as it was intended to. But as I've said, measures have to be taken to stop people looking to use it as a get rich quick scheme or further use it when they clearly don't need to (as in, they already have significant capital backing).
Right now its up in the air though. Further more now, we're seeing companies like Obsidian jumping on the bandwagon.. in all fairness, Obsidian can get fucked lol.. I doubt anyone is going to trust them, what with the quality of their past 4 games.
Right now its up in the air though. Further more now, we're seeing companies like Obsidian jumping on the bandwagon.. in all fairness, Obsidian can get fucked lol.. I doubt anyone is going to trust them, what with the quality of their past 4 games.
A publisher's standard percentage of the net profits if they decide to invest in a project?
91%.
Hence the developer getting the remaining 9% of the total profits from a game.
See why Schaefer chooses to try Kickstarter? He runs a development studio, not a publisher.
I tell ya it's freakin' hard being on the developing end.
-Fred
PS: Also, some times the publishers meddle in the development, even though they have NO creative skills whatsoever. You see this with films and tv-series too. Dumbing down, mainstreaming, basically what the industries refer to as a 'Swoop & Poop'.
The suits swoop in, poop all over your project and expect you to make gold from it.
It's a tough racket.
91%.
Hence the developer getting the remaining 9% of the total profits from a game.
See why Schaefer chooses to try Kickstarter? He runs a development studio, not a publisher.
I tell ya it's freakin' hard being on the developing end.
-Fred
PS: Also, some times the publishers meddle in the development, even though they have NO creative skills whatsoever. You see this with films and tv-series too. Dumbing down, mainstreaming, basically what the industries refer to as a 'Swoop & Poop'.
The suits swoop in, poop all over your project and expect you to make gold from it.
It's a tough racket.
Pirates, vampires, zombies, ninjas, ghouls, aliens, goblins, monsters, robots, sorcerers, undead, werewolves, demons, mutated dinosaur-cyborgs and those pesky phone salesmen! The shotgun is a one-size-fits-all solution!
Where did you get this number from? Its not accurate because the number of profits is cut up between Retailer, Distributor, Publisher and Developer, it doesn't all just go to the publisher (unless that is you buy from Origin because it cuts everyone out of the loop. Be that a lesson, Don't buy from Origin, you're killing the industry doing that. If you have to buy EAs titles, get it retail, at least then the rest of the process profits).A publisher's standard percentage of the net profits if they decide to invest in a project?
91%.
Hence the developer getting the remaining 9% of the total profits from a game.
Question, what exactly happens when the game is finished? how is it distributed, marketed ect?..See why Schaefer chooses to try Kickstarter? He runs a development studio, not a publisher.
I think you'll find that ok now he's not a publisher, but eventually he's going to have to consider it. I'd argue he has no other choice but Self Publishing. However I've been saying for a long time now that it was only a matter of time before there was a boom in Self Published indies thanks to the boom in Digital Distribution. Publishers are slowly becoming obslete thanks to companies like Valve, CD Projekt and Paradox (I won't include GameStop because they bastardized what Impulse stood for). Using those 3 companies as an example, we can actually see the publishers now reverting to the role of Distributor, CD Projekt and Paradox already did a lot of distribution work in Europe already, so it made sense for them to do this.
Valve is an interesting one, because its essentially a developer turning self publisher using a digital distribution network (or rather it became that way because of EA being dicks).
I work with people who've been in the industry for over a decade now. Apparently, 91% is a contract standard for publishers. The rest goes to developers, retailers, all that. And I assure you, the number is accurate. At least on the publisher's side.
So imagine how little developers actually see of any success on the market, and why some studios never last long.
As to how Schaefer wants to push his product, I guess that's up to Schaefer.
-Fred
So imagine how little developers actually see of any success on the market, and why some studios never last long.
As to how Schaefer wants to push his product, I guess that's up to Schaefer.
-Fred
Pirates, vampires, zombies, ninjas, ghouls, aliens, goblins, monsters, robots, sorcerers, undead, werewolves, demons, mutated dinosaur-cyborgs and those pesky phone salesmen! The shotgun is a one-size-fits-all solution!
I found an article on Tim Schafers opinion on the issue of the publishers btw Fred
http://www.kotaku.com.au/2012/02/tim-sc ... ublishers/
thats really the thing, its kinda necessary to have these publishers here for a game that is upwards of $10million.
http://www.kotaku.com.au/2012/02/tim-sc ... ublishers/
thats really the thing, its kinda necessary to have these publishers here for a game that is upwards of $10million.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFKwplDB ... r_embedded
Sounds really good, I just hope that he keeps these dev journals up. The steam thing sounds very interesting actually, I'd argue this is going to be a major trigger in getting Gabe interested (because in all fairness he already mentioned he wanted to build a community funding section for Steam, this will likely be the push he needs to go ahead with it).
I'm really looking forward to seeing what ends up happening and if Gabe will capitalize on this, because it'd be an extremely good and topical move to make. This would effectively cut Kickstarter out completely which is what we want (because too many hands in the cookie jar is not a good thing, if we can just go direct to valve from start to finish it'll mean more games being able to use the community fund model hassle free).
Interesting times ahead.
Sounds really good, I just hope that he keeps these dev journals up. The steam thing sounds very interesting actually, I'd argue this is going to be a major trigger in getting Gabe interested (because in all fairness he already mentioned he wanted to build a community funding section for Steam, this will likely be the push he needs to go ahead with it).
I'm really looking forward to seeing what ends up happening and if Gabe will capitalize on this, because it'd be an extremely good and topical move to make. This would effectively cut Kickstarter out completely which is what we want (because too many hands in the cookie jar is not a good thing, if we can just go direct to valve from start to finish it'll mean more games being able to use the community fund model hassle free).
Interesting times ahead.
Episodic is not viable for anything they intend to do. This is a story-driven genre we're talking about, and too big a compromise would need to be made in that department for it to remotely work. Each episode would require a sense of closure, and so be self-contained. And while a tv series or comics can afford to offer both self-contained material and mythology material, they can count on weekly or monthly releases to keep the latter alive. A mere summer break can be enough to lose a following and endanger ratings. Why would anyone risk money on episodic releases when months, if not years, pass in between releases? There will never be any garantee, because no prior successes could be drown upon as argument.
Most importantly, I strongly suspect the cost of episodic release to be, in all actuality, more draining and less cost-efficient than a self-contained game of average length by today's standards, considering the improbable and smaller rate of return, the overal lenght of development cycles and the repitition of blunt work.
I share your sentiment however that no Tex game could ever hope to be community-funded, or e-begged for, as Cyber puts it. Shaffer could not hope to fund a AAA project with the kind of support he's received, nor was it his intention from the get go, and we certainly can't expect a Tex game to receive such overwhelming monetary support. I do think, however, that this kind of funding could be used to kickstart something, so to speak. An ultimate show of force, a demonstration, straight to the public, of something so interesting it couldn't hope to go unnoticed. LA Noire pulled that gamble, and in my opinion won it, no matter the actual rate of return, in the sense that it got greenlit and managed to come to a full release, while we were always told there was no market for such a slow-paced game. The best Tex can hope for is to gather enough attention, without capital risk from AC and co, for someone else to step in and pick up the ball.
The guys had a knack for gaming, were the first in the doorstep in many regards, and always pulled through with innovation which rarely paid off to the full extent of what they deserved. In that regard, they don't lack the creativity to gather interest if need be, with the help of a solid demo and a respectable marketing backing. They need not concern themselves with the market, let alone trends of any kind. What they need is initial buzz, and momentum. You can't count on GOG sales, on the Tex name alone, or on any sales prevision or market studies of any kind to hope for such a game to pull through. The only thing you can count on is emotional response. It defies logic or reason, silences aprehensions and gives sudden courage to people who usually hold tight to their wallets when it comes to financing a project.
Most importantly, I strongly suspect the cost of episodic release to be, in all actuality, more draining and less cost-efficient than a self-contained game of average length by today's standards, considering the improbable and smaller rate of return, the overal lenght of development cycles and the repitition of blunt work.
I share your sentiment however that no Tex game could ever hope to be community-funded, or e-begged for, as Cyber puts it. Shaffer could not hope to fund a AAA project with the kind of support he's received, nor was it his intention from the get go, and we certainly can't expect a Tex game to receive such overwhelming monetary support. I do think, however, that this kind of funding could be used to kickstart something, so to speak. An ultimate show of force, a demonstration, straight to the public, of something so interesting it couldn't hope to go unnoticed. LA Noire pulled that gamble, and in my opinion won it, no matter the actual rate of return, in the sense that it got greenlit and managed to come to a full release, while we were always told there was no market for such a slow-paced game. The best Tex can hope for is to gather enough attention, without capital risk from AC and co, for someone else to step in and pick up the ball.
The guys had a knack for gaming, were the first in the doorstep in many regards, and always pulled through with innovation which rarely paid off to the full extent of what they deserved. In that regard, they don't lack the creativity to gather interest if need be, with the help of a solid demo and a respectable marketing backing. They need not concern themselves with the market, let alone trends of any kind. What they need is initial buzz, and momentum. You can't count on GOG sales, on the Tex name alone, or on any sales prevision or market studies of any kind to hope for such a game to pull through. The only thing you can count on is emotional response. It defies logic or reason, silences aprehensions and gives sudden courage to people who usually hold tight to their wallets when it comes to financing a project.
Part-Time Nomad
I agree somewhat with that last line frank, that this is really based on emotional response when trying to crowd source a project, and only classic IPs or classic developers from the 80s and 90s can generate such a response.
Either way Episodic offers no financial advantages what so ever.
you under stand this is the Achilles Heel of Episodic, that if you did get stuck, it defeats the entire point of the model. Episodic is about fast short releases- if you got stuck, you might as well had done it the traditional way.Yes, it could end up with long delays between episodes,
Either way Episodic offers no financial advantages what so ever.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLC_zZ5fqFk
Gabe Newell from 3 years ago on the subject of community funding, I should've referenced it sooner. go to 5:00.
Gabe Newell from 3 years ago on the subject of community funding, I should've referenced it sooner. go to 5:00.