Another UAKM "puzzle"

DrPaul wrote:That reminds me. Didn't someone ask once if TM fans were like a cult? I think we have the answer!
Yeah, someone was doing a paper for School and posted that question... I believe it was Atomicvegetable, but I'm not positive without searching through the threads and finding it...


But I remember thinking back when I played it, "There Are A Lot Of Bubble-Headed Women Here"...
And I don't think that I've ever met anyone as clueless as Melahn Tode was... Even though Fred says she had a PhD...
Makes me think back to the "Married With Children" show... Christina Applegate played the most mindless blonde {Kelly Bundy}, yet was a Straight-A student in Real Life...
The Paved Straight Road, Won't Always Get You Farther Than The Winding Dirt Road...


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DrPaul wrote:
Yes, for the most part, the women in UAKM seem a bit on the slow, dimwitted side.
Thanks Jim. I wasn't offended by your earlier post. I just thought you misinterpreted what I was saying, so I tried to clarify it.

I must say, however, that I am very surprised by the level of denial that I've seen here for something that is so completely obvious. It's almost scary.

I have no doubt that if I had written a post which characterized women similarly to how they are characterized in UAKM, the good folks here would crucify me in a New York minute. (I know this because I've been ganged up on for a lot less.) But UAKM does it and everyone suddenly goes blind.

That reminds me. Didn't someone ask once if TM fans were like a cult? I think we have the answer!
Can we be given examples?

I just don't see it. Eva Schanzee you've got one example of bimbo behavior out of the many examples the game gives you of her behavior. Tode speaks with a valley girl dialect and has a definite interest in money over anything else. Tex's ex is shown as a total bimbo. Chelsee is shown as a street smart wise cracking individual. Francesca isn't a bimbo. Eddie Ching is most definitely not a bimbo. The bartender just had Margot Kidder's craziness shine through.

So you've basically got Tode and who Alayna Moore? Alayna's behavior is easily explained by her past history with Tex. So we don't see the Alayna that GRS saw.

I just don't see it. You're suggesting they're all bimbos because Tode was written like one, and Schanzee had her twister comment, and Alayna acted like her crush was still active. I just don't buy it.

If you want to argue there wasn't a strong female character, I disagree up until the end Eva was a strong character and to label her a bimbo because of the Twister comment is a bit heavy handed.

Just give us the weak characterizations examples. I don't see it, but maybe if you point it out...
Melahn Tode. The end.

-Fred
Pirates, vampires, zombies, ninjas, ghouls, aliens, goblins, monsters, robots, sorcerers, undead, werewolves, demons, mutated dinosaur-cyborgs and those pesky phone salesmen! The shotgun is a one-size-fits-all solution!
Fred Buer wrote:Melahn Tode. The end.

-Fred
Exactly. ONE CHARACTER. Because of one character and Tex's Ex we're supposed to buy they're all bimbos? I just don't see it. It does all however fit in the film noir setting that the Tex games all try to fall into. There is definitely a bimbo or two in the game, but it doesn't make them all bimbos.

UAKM lacked a strong female character for Tex to relate to through out. He talked to Chelsee sure, but Eva was captured and out of it until the end, all we had to go on were mentionings of her and the video we found.

Perhaps one of the females who plays these games should speak their mind on it.
DrPaul wrote:
Yes, for the most part, the women in UAKM seem a bit on the slow, dimwitted side.
Thanks Jim. I wasn't offended by your earlier post. I just thought you misinterpreted what I was saying, so I tried to clarify it.

I must say, however, that I am very surprised by the level of denial that I've seen here for something that is so completely obvious. It's almost scary.

I have no doubt that if I had written a post which characterized women similarly to how they are characterized in UAKM, the good folks here would crucify me in a New York minute. (I know this because I've been ganged up on for a lot less.) But UAKM does it and everyone suddenly goes blind.

That reminds me. Didn't someone ask once if TM fans were like a cult? I think we have the answer!
Yes, I agree. The misogyny in the TM series, intentional or unintentional, is very very very palpable, and anyone who can't see that knows nothing of gender issues.

I've been wanting to post about it, but I just didn't have the cajoneys (well of course I didn't-- ah ha! see? Patriarchal society rules our language! :lol: )

However I'm willing to overlook it because a) It's typical of most video games and the noir genre b)CJ. :)
joliet_jane wrote:Yes, I agree. The misogyny in the TM series, intentional or unintentional, is very very very palpable, and anyone who can't see that knows nothing of gender issues.
Wait the TM series shows a hatred of women? Really!?!? Come on, now we've gone from bimbos to saying the series is misogynistic.

I offer up the alternate arguement:

The male characters are treated poorly.

The fact is that all the characters in these games are imperfect and fall fully into the film noir genre.
Last edited by Frank on August 22, 2008 • 2:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
All this talk about bimbos...There's a daycare center a few blocks from my place called Bimbo Daycare. Every time I pass by I get a giggle, imagining this is where the pimps keep their "employees" during the day.

I think some people here are quick to overlook how cartoonish UAKM was, starting with Tex. CJ made him out to be absolutely lovable, but he's one serious disaster when you look at it objectively, and so are most of the characters portrayed in that game, male and female. I don't remember everyone from the game, but I'd go so far as saying the few strong characters with heads on their shoulders were in fact women.

I think what passes for, what, misogyny now? is a big ole case of underdeveloped female characters. PD makes it all the more obvious, even with Chelsea being a near equal to Tex in terms of importance and development. See, even the bums, low-lifes and other strange male characters in PD have a backstory and are almost 3 dimensional. Many of them are actually losers, but they're still rich characters with at least two different sides to them. Nilo and Archie, who, when you think about it are of little importance to the story, are fairly well developed. For what little time we actually spend with Archie, I bonded enough to be wrecked by his death and swear vengeance on his vile aggressor (another non-lovable character who was fairly rich and well-portrayed).

Lastly, keep in mind we see the story from Tex's eyes, literally. We get to know the characters from his perspective, with his comments and his judgments.
Part-Time Nomad
Lotus,

You're not reading what I'm writing. I did NOT say that all of the UAKM women were bimbos. I was making a point that the portrayal of women in UAKM was very *different* than it was in PD and TMO and that the portrayals seemed a little sexist.

In explaining how these portrayals were different or sexist, I said that the UAKM women tended to be (with a few exceptions) good-looking, not too bright and sexually aggressive.

I don't know what to tell you if you don't see it. Let me put it this way:

I played Pandora before I played UAKM. Back then, my five-year-old daughter sat on my lap and we played Pandora together. No problem. Then we played UAKM. Right off the bat, there was Sylvia coming on to the upholstery guy. There's Melahn Tode and her whole Valley-girl sex thing. There's Fruit-cake Francesca with her sleeping around husband and the whole Escort service-thing (try explaining that to a five-year-old.) And then there's Alaynah coming on to Tex and finally, Eva running off with a guy twice her age to play Twister. This was all VERY different from PD.

For the record, I never saw any evidence of intelligence from Eva. She slept through the whole game, but even in her mission notes, she mostly used her sexuality.

Jane used the right word to describe the general characterization: Misogynistic. I wish I had thought of that. It doesn't mean UAKM is bad. It doesn't mean the game has some terrible design flaw. It doesn't mean the game needs any defending or excuses. It is what it is and we love it. Maybe that's why we love it. But we sure don't have to blind ourselves to it to be loyal.

Thanks Jane, for finally providing some female input. (Don't know what gender Lotus is. Apologies to Lotus if he is a she.)
Yeah but Doc, pretty much the same could be said about the difference in male characters between UAKM and Pandora. The men weren't objectified in UAKM, but by George they were pretty much all losers and lunatics.

I agree the cartoonish interpretation of women was fairly sexually oriented. So that's the angle they pulled, something very different from PD indeed. The angle pulled with men was the dumb losers, with one or two lovable town idiots on the side. Is there a term for the negative interpretation/portrayal of men? Because it would apply here :P

The entire universe of UAKM was a disaster and a cartoon, but that went along with the rest of the game, which was very different from PD and Overseer. Overseer went a bit too far in the personal backstory and fell in the near melo-drama, but Pandora achieved a perfect balance of, excuse my language, fucked up universe and yet interesting characters.

Again, if there were any "complaints" to be addressed in PD, it's that the male characters were more present and developed. But until a story is actually written by a couple, with a few exceptions in mind I think we'll always notice a lack of balance between the genders, whichever it is that is better written.
Part-Time Nomad
After reading the thread through I guess we could sum up the whole discussion with this: UAKM is a game written to exploit our sense of humor while trying to be marginally serious. We can see the evolution of ALL the characters in Pandora and I, for one, loved the creators for it. PD was and is a far superior game for ALL the right reasons. An obvious example of this is the BOBD path with Tex and Chelsee at the FF. No bimbo there! Also, who of us would want to follow Lucia Pernell into a dark alley, whether it was to fight physically OR verbally? And, though Regan Madsen was played a fool by Jackson Cross, she certainly didn't lower herself to the point of Melahn Tode. Even Sylvia's character in Overseer was far beyond the "dumb blonde" of UAKM.

No, my dear friends, UAKM was a sci-fi spoof, full of fun and humor with the added bonus of several near death experiences (how many times did the GRS droid kill you, or the Chameleon flip his dagger your way?).
"If you look to me for illumination, you better have a flashlight!"
No, my dear friends, UAKM was a sci-fi spoof, full of fun and humor
Exactly. Thanks for putting it more simply and effectively Jim. I always saw UAKM as the whacky cousin of Cyber Punk. All the negativity but portrayed in a non-serious manner. In-game, it actually made sense for Eva to just suddenly leave with this dude to play twister. That's just something you wouldn't expect anywhere, except in that strange universe, where somehow it fit perfectly.
Part-Time Nomad
Frank wrote:
No, my dear friends, UAKM was a sci-fi spoof, full of fun and humor
Exactly. Thanks for putting it more simply and effectively Jim. I always saw UAKM as the whacky cousin of Cyber Punk. All the negativity but portrayed in a non-serious manner. In-game, it actually made sense for Eva to just suddenly leave with this dude to play twister. That's just something you wouldn't expect anywhere, except in that strange universe, where somehow it fit perfectly.
Exactly.

I think people throw around the word "misogynistic," too much. I don't even think people know what it means. It means that the content shows HATRED towards women or a major DISTRUST of women. It doesn't mean it's "sexist." I don't think CJ or AC hate women or distrust them or meant to give off that opinion.

It's a spoof of a Film Noir. It all makes sense when you look at it that way.
Okay, Okay, Okay... You All Gotta Pull Over, I'm Gonna Be Sick... :mrgreen:
The Paved Straight Road, Won't Always Get You Farther Than The Winding Dirt Road...


Can You Run Your Game??? Click Here And Find Out...

*Note, Not All Games Have Been Tested & Therefore May Not Be Listed...
Okay, Okay, Okay... You All Gotta Pull Over, I'm Gonna Be Sick.
Dr. Paul pulls over and leaves his car on the highway. This road isn't going anywhere near where I wanted.

I was interested in the female perspective of the UAKM characterizations. (Thanks Jane for your input.) I wasn't expecting all the guys to suddenly circle the wagons and protect UAKM.
I blame DNA memory of past Pinkerton service
Part-Time Nomad